The Confusing and Troubling Public Face of "NewSpace"
Keith’s note: There are a surprising number of people associated with the so-called “NewSpace” crowd who do not seem to find this sort of reprehensible public behavior on Twitter (see screen grab below) by a semi-prominent blogger/pundit/supporter of their ilk (one regularly accredited as news media) as evidenced at the FAA CST conference this week in Washington, DC – to be in any way objectionable.
Newsflash: Don’t be surprised when no one cares what you think.
I have had to block several profane comments. There are a number of comments that condone these comments because they are funny (in their minds). These responses are almost as troubling as the original Twitter post and speak to some strange opinions as to what is considered to be appropriate public behavior. Yet another troubling aspect of some of the adherents of the NewSpace meme. Grow up guys.
Image with Twitter comments after the link.
Keith’s update: Well, he finally got around to apologizing
@AIAA I want to apologize to you and @Astro_Sandy. That tweet was not about her in any way, but get how it could have been interpreted so.
— Rand Simberg (@Rand_Simberg) February 6, 2015
@AIAA @Astro_Sandy It was late in day, could have been anyone's chart with that word, but I do humbly regret it. Beg forgiveness.
— Rand Simberg (@Rand_Simberg) February 6, 2015
@AIAA I have nothing but respect for @Astro_Sandy's accomplishments, and again deeply regret any accidental implication otherwise.
— Rand Simberg (@Rand_Simberg) February 6, 2015
But his orignal insulting tweet is still online – then he decided to make fun of this by tweeting this with a mocking hashtag
@w_mccan I don't expect anyone to defend me in #MasturbateGate, but I do expect merciless mocking of Keith's reaction to it.
— Rand Simberg (@Rand_Simberg) February 7, 2015
Please do not try to make this a “Newspace” thing.
I have.
This is not a “Newspace” thing or an Oldspace thing or any space thing at all. This is you being offended about something someone said on twitter. Don’t attempt to drag the rest of us into it. If you have a problem with someone on twitter then take it up with them.
It’s a generation thing, and it is certainly not limited to Twitter or NewSpace. The current younger crowd has absolutely no qualm using whatever language in public they like, even dropping the F-bomb in front of children in public places (I work in a library and see this all the time, I tell them to keep the Locker Room talk in the Locker Room.) That such language might offend others does not seem to cross their mind. Internal filters seem to be nonexistent among the crowd born in the 1990s or later, they say, post, or tweet whatever they want and call if ‘free speech’, forgetting that just because they can, doesn’t mean they should. And unfortunately, the NewSpace movement has a significant percentage of followers in this age group. So even when the author is not of that age group (i.e., Mr. Simberg) he still seems to bend over backwards to meet their approval (and get more followers on Twitter, websites, Facebook, what-have-you.)
It’s an engineering thing.
Space, computers, software, etc.
All engineering cultures have this problem.
Well, all culture PERIOD has it, but things in the last couple of years have made many begin to notice that it’s particularly bad in engineering and tech fields.
I’d say Rand Simberg did, actually.
I follow Rand and find most of his tweets interesting, important and entertaining. When I saw this one, I did like he said, I didn’t respond, nor did I investigate the topic/ meeting/chart or whatever. I rolled my eyes and moved on, figuring he said something stupid and new it.
That’s it ??
Keith won’t be happy until everyone at NASA is as bland and prudish as he is.
does flinging insults make you happy?
Does manufacturing controversy make you feel important?
I did not make the offensive comments about a prominent female in the aerospace community.
The opposite of prudish is bigoted?
Gosh.
ya learn something stupid every day I suppose.
He said something stupid, knew it, and purposely made a point of showing it off to garner attention (which sadly I suppose I’m giving him). Twitter has a wonderful feature called the “Delete” button. There should be no room for sexist remarks in old space, new space, or anywhere in between. See #GamerGate
The author of this Tweet has not deleted the Tweet.
If I’d been feeling bad and had posted something so insulting, I’d have removed the tweet and/or posted a retraction and apology. That is what a mature adult would do, IMO.
Chill, Keith, some people have a more open sense of humor.
You are as bad as he is.
I’m surprised at this; Simberg has to know that he is devaluing himself by such posts. Credibility is a fragile thing.
Unfortunately, there’s a growing trend toward trolling, here and on other sites, one in which those with little or nothing to contribute attack or belittle those who are legitimately trying to conduct a conversation. The ideologically motivated also seem to feel that bashing others is a fine thing.
It’s interesting that those who troll, bully, or besmirch also tend to feel that they are being attacked or discriminated against (See the late, unlamented Mr. Church, thankfully banned by Keith).
When so many think that personal attack is the way to win an argument, constructive dialog becomes rare and comment-heavy sites begin to lose their value.
Opinions are not facts, insults are not logical propositions, and adolescent “humor” often offends those who see it.
I got sucked in by him the other day, I was surprised Keith didn’t boot me too … guy was just pushing every button and I went for it…
(apologies Keith)
I am tolerant …..
Simberg’s idiotic tweet reminds me of a line from the original incredible film “The Flight of the Phoenix”: Mr. Towns, you behave as if stupidity were a virtue. Why is that?
Keith, a person making a joke like that does not have serious issues.
Only allowing comments that agree with you?
A professional person making a joke like that about a woman in his profession in a public (and publicized) venue does indeed have a problem.
As does anyone defending it.
The fact that that particular problem is exceedingly common doesn’t mean that it isn’t a problem.
The tweet was childish (and inappropriate if followed widely), but that is not the real problem.
It has been repeatedly been shown that a significant reason that more women (half the human species) don’t enter the STEM fields is the sense of it being an exclusive Boys Only! frat. That tweet can be seen (whether intended or not) as sexist, which is often seen as aggressive.
The guy shouldn’t be taken out and shot, but he sure needs a good dope slap. With freedom of expression comes adult responsibility.
I agree completely with Keith. That tweet was totally inappropriate and immature. I am not sure if this was a “NewSpace” thing vs. just an idiot on twitter who happens to be a New Spacer. Either way I believe Keith was right to point it out and condemn it.
From the Harvard Business Review
“Stopping the Exodus of Women in Science
… Over time 52% of these talented women quit their jobs. …
So why do women leave science, engineering, and technology careers? … First and foremost, the hostility of the workplace culture drives them out. If machismo is on the run in most U.S. corporate settings, then this is its Alamo—a last holdout of redoubled intensity.
NewSpace companies have been hiring a large number of programmers and 20-somethings. That community has a high percentage of computer gamers. As Ms. Ling notes above, what you attribute to bad behavior among NewSpace types is likely more appropriately tossed into the GamerGate discussion on sexism and misogyny.
I do find it odd that, after posting the above-captured tweet, he asked people to not respond to it, rather than removing it. That screams of both poor judgement (posting the original) and narcissism (leaving it up to garner more attention), which also don’t impress as being some unique characteristic of NewSpace.
It also shows that he KNEW it was sexist.
It’s a sort of retroactive version of “I don’t want to sound racist, but…”
And then the “everyone thinks it” thing typical of bigots was tossed in for good measure.
Simberg’s twitter history is full of creepy stuff. He’s a goon.
Wow! LOL! …and Nero fiddled while Rome burned. I would honestly rather you guys spent your time and words telling me how stupid I am for supporting SLS and Orion. This kind of stuff is more correctly posted on Bevis & Butthead.com.
I would never tell you you were being stupid (which you are not). I may disagree and attempt to reason out or demonstrate why I disagree, but not attack the person.
When I used to have to occasionally do emergency substitute assistant T-Ball coaching at a game, I used to tell the team that the other team are not enemies, they are people providing an opportunity for a fun competition. That used to annoy some of the mouth-foaming parents, but tuff noogies.
Hostile, aggressive, sexist, racist, ageist, potty-mouthed, or inappropriate comments or tweets hurt people, and hurt communication.
“tuff noogies”!
I’m not sure what Rand (usually a fairly intelligent and persuasive guy) was drinking that day but it was clearly too much but simultaneously not enough to render him incapable of Tweeting. It would be appropriate for him to withdraw the comment and apologise.
Just another repugnant comment in a long line from Rand Simberg. What a pathetic human being.
I think those who think this is “no big deal” are missing the point. Most people believe that each new generation is a bit more enlightened than the past, and that issues like racism and sexism are a thing of the past. The aerospace industry has worked very, very hard to diversify the industry, which is a great thing. I still have high school students ask me, “are there girl engineers?” to which I can proudly say, “yes, but we need more!”. Those are all happy thoughts. The reality, though, is that there is an ugly undercurrent of misogyny, racism and hate within the “new tech” crowd – kids that grew up blowing people up on their X-Box. #gamersgate puts this idiocy on display, and frankly it’s both ugly and frightening. The new space folks need to make a conscious choice that this type of behavior won’t be tolerated. All of the apologists here who don’t think this is a big deal? You think you can just “roll your eyes and move on”?
“If we sit by and become complacent and put our heads in the sand, we’re complicit. “
– Shelley Morrison
Everyone be very careful making libellous statements. The misogyny does not come from GamerGate. Some websites are getting themselves into very nasty messes.
I agree that it is a stupid comment, and I don’t think its appropriate on a professional website. I don’t think its right for Keith to label the statement as representative of NewSpace. I read quite of bit of space news and this is the first inappropriate comment I’ve seen from anyone.
You need to read more of his Twitter stream ….
You should be offended by some of the ads being served at the bottom of your webpages. Are those coming from Disqus?
They are chosen by Disqus. We have some partial control over what is shown – but not total. If the ads offend you then don’t read comments on NASAWatch.
If comments on Twitter offend you then don’t read them, you hippocrite.
it is spelled “hypocrite”, FYI.
I don’t even.
If we needed another example of the sort of attitude that keeps more women from going into science and engineering, Mr. Simberg has certainly provided it.
No, Mr. Simberg, everyone wasn’t thinking what you were thinking.
I am aware of quite a bit of discussion on why young women and, indeed, young men, are avoiding careers in aerospace in particular and tech fields in general. I’ve even done some work in the field myself. One thing I did was, back in 2007, write a paper which I have saved on my blog as Aerospace Workforce Issues. I submitted the paper to Lori Garver since we were acquainted at the time. I never got a reply.
Briefly, young people were avoiding tech fields (and probably still are) because of poor management that made demands that produced a poor work-life balance as well as numerous failures in various fields (think Challenger especially).
FWIW, I was forced out of Goddard Space Flight Center by an abusive control freak manager who happened to be a woman. The company that hired me then was also led by a woman with a Ph.D. in astrophysics. She was so much a better person it wasn’t funny. She listened and was very supportive of her team. She was even sympathetic when I heard some very bad news in my personal life that wasn’t even related to work.
As much fun as it is to watch two fellow 50-something white aerospace nerds who are both friends of mine argue over whose case of Asberger’s is worse… i.e. no fun at all… I hope Rand apologizes to Ms. Magnus and I hope Keith cuts off this discussion here.
I do not have Asperger Syndrome nor have I accused anyone else of having it. Casually tossing that term into a discussion where it has not been mentioned is irresponsible in the extreme. Yet another example of the NewSpace community’s inability to understand the implication of their public comments.
It was a joke. I apologize.
You think its funny to make jokes that reference Asperger Syndrome? You’re just as clueless as Simberg.
Why do you want to insult these guys? This seems to be an example of the very on line behavior that Keith is pointing out.
another example of why my decision to avoid twitter and social media is one of my better ones.
Keith, you are absolutely correct. As one who has made mistakes in the past, I know how important it is to never say the wrong thing in social media forums. We need to consider what we say, and how it affects others, before we say it.
I’d like to bring a female perspective into this. I know the article doesn’t bring up the female-in-STEM issue, but there is definitely an undercurrent of that issue here and some comments rightly point that out.
I’m a 28-year old woman in aerospace/STEM. A feminist who has faced sexual harassment ranging from offhanded comments on the way she looks to being outright stalked at conferences by another attendee who couldn’t keep his eyes or hands to himself. That is to say, I’m generally very sensitive about sexual jokes, harassment, sexism and so on.
That said, this seems a little bit overblown to me and not at all indicative of anything but Mr. Simberg himself (and now you, Mr. Cowing). In my experience, this doesn’t reflect Newspace as much as STEM in general, which a lot of commenters have rightly pointed out. I have worked in Mojave, at a midwest airline, and a NASA contractor — I faced BY FAR the least immaturity/harassment in Mojave as compared to the others.
So, to review: is it immature and in bad taste? Surely. Is it hurting women going into STEM? It doesn’t help, but I’m thinking not really — it’s a dumb joke. Is it a reflection of Newspace in general? That seems like a bit of a stretch.
I think if you really wanted to write an article about “The Confusing and Troubling Public Face of ‘NewSpace'” (an article I would love to read, which is what brought me here in the first place) you’ve really got to reference far more than one incident by one person. As it is, this kind of reeks of personal issue/vendetta.
You are part of the problem. This incident was taken very seriously here in Washington DC by a number of people – among whom are some rather senior female policy makers.
Ah, right. The more experienced women of Washington, DC are the women whose opinions really are valid in situations such as these. Since that is the case, please point me to the articles/posts they have written that take this one guy and point in time as proof positive of a broader culture of anti-feminism in NewSpace.