Karona, False God or Progenitus would be the general. Would a deck like this be possible? After theros is completed, there will be 15 Gods in total. A large number like this, plus the fact that they tend to be 4-5 CMC and are all indestructible makes for a decent set of creatures... My biggest concern would be, how often can you hit devotion? I figured this would have a substantial number of permanents. Taking advantage of the split color costing cards, like Divinity of Pride, which will trigger ALL black/white gods ALONE. Including the new set from BNG (since they require 7 but have 2 in their cost, thus only requiring 5. Also assuming the next set will follow this one).
Another issue is, the Gods tend to be needy. Requiring a lot of building AROUND them. Take Purphorus, probably the best God in edh. But without sufficient ways to drop enough creatures, is it really that good?
This idea seems pretty fun, and interesting. Running all of the hybrid avatars seems like a good solution to the devotion issue, but I'm not even sure it's that much of an issue. Having more than one god in play will likely be a big help to devotion, and I'm sure there's plenty of strong cards with multiple colored mana symbols in them that will work, once you spend some time thinking about the direction of the deck.
Another issue is, the Gods tend to be needy. Requiring a lot of building AROUND them.
I don't think they need much support at all. Heliod gives all your gods and avatars vigilance, and can pay a cost to make tokens. Thassa scrys, which is good for any deck, and makes your gods unblockable, which is useful. Erebos stops people from gaining life, and generates cards, which every deck needs. Purphoros triggers on each god, each avatar, and tokens, either from Helios, or otherwise. Nylea gives those 7/6s the trample they need to push through.
The new four all seem to have relatively static abilities that benefit from doing stuff you're already planning on doing, like casting creatures, drawing cards, or putting pressure on your opponent. I think it could work.
Hitting devotion may not be a good thing for many of the gods. Turning creature makes them easier to remove. And many can provide paths to win cons without ever turning creature (Heliod's tokens + Purphoros for example).
See yeah, 5 color god tribal could work because devotion probably won't matter for many.
Karona God Tribal Beatdown is a deck idea I've been working on since the release of Theros.
It used to be more flavourful and cleric-based, but now that I know just how much devotion I'm going to need for the new gods (i.e. hybrid cards aren't super great with the multicolour gods) it's become more of a goodstuff beatdown deck, playing cards like Oracle of Mul Daya, Angel of Despair and Sire of Insanity that are necessary to enable the deck some semblance of card advantage and board control.
You probably COULD just play a bunch of gods without trying to make them creatures, as bigbear suggested, and that would likely be a stronger, more resilient deck, but IMO I've had far more fun smacking people with a horde of gods in the games I've played, and my repertoire of EDH decks was lacking a beatdown deck. If your playgroup is more casual, you could get away with it.
I'll likely post my list up once Phenax is spoiled.
I think the real problem here is that you intend to have a real glut of in the 4-5 CMC range.
The truth of the matter is, you'll play a god, and then you'll be stuck without the right devotion, and there will be a couple other gods in your hand.
Progenitus will go some way towards defraying that cost, but really, you just played Progenitus.
Basically, people can be greedy with their mana bases because there are a lot of tools to fix mana. You can't be greedy with devotion (at least, not past 3 colours or so) because the tools to 'fix' devotion don't exist. Sure, you can play Divinity of Pride, but then you're hoping you get the right selection of gods (which isn't too bad, given that DoP will creaturify 6 out of 10 gods), but then you're leaning on DoP not being killed. And, it will, because having gods is a problem.
I think I'd be more interested in seeing how 3 colour decks fare, possibly with Elder Dragons at the helm. A Nicol Bolas gods deck might be interesting, depending on what the U/B one turns out to be.
There's also the Liege cycle from Lorwyn, which are not only generally more useful than the Deus/Divinity/What-Have-You cycle, but are also easier to cast while still providing plenty of devotion.
I intend on doing exactly that with my Karona enchantress deck. Devotion probably won't happen for the gods that include red and black, but the others at least have a decent chance to turn on. 15 indestructible enchantments? Yes please!
What about Child of Alara? Indestructible seems to go hand in hand with it. You can focus on multi colored dudes to turn on the gods with the typical recursion package child decks run. At worst, you end up with a bunch of indestructible enchantments when child does its thing and at best you cast living death that doesn't effect your gods till suddenly you have a table full of multi colored dudes and can swing for the fences that same turn.
I've been thinking about this for a while, contemplating different approaches. I was planning on going with a pillowfort enchantment deck with stuff like Assemble the Legion to make use of the gods' abilities, but after seeing the latest batch (Mogis, Ephara, Karametra, Xenagos) I do think a beatdown deck would make better use of their abilities.
Trying to hit devotion reliably seems tricky though, unless all those hybrid guys from Shadowmoor are included. And as mentioned by bigbear, NOT hitting devotion until you're ready to strike can be an advantage.
Currently I'm leaning towards using Horde of Notions, with some nifty evoke guys and some other useful elementals. Just let the gods hang around and provide support until some of them get impatient and punch face.
Child of Alara also sounds good, but seriously... I just can't bring myself to play it with that art...
Karona seems fitting for a beatdown-style deck, and she's obviously the most flavorful general.
Seems like "Gods" of Shadowmoor/Eventide are auto-includes here. Enabling alone all the multicolored gods that rely on one of their colors, plus the two monocolored ones is serious business.
I've been thinking about this for a while, contemplating different approaches. I was planning on going with a pillowfort enchantment deck with stuff like Assemble the Legion to make use of the gods' abilities, but after seeing the latest batch (Mogis, Ephara, Karametra, Xenagos) I do think a beatdown deck would make better use of their abilities.
Trying to hit devotion reliably seems tricky though, unless all those hybrid guys from Shadowmoor are included. And as mentioned by bigbear, NOT hitting devotion until you're ready to strike can be an advantage.
Currently I'm leaning towards using Horde of Notions, with some nifty evoke guys and some other useful elementals. Just let the gods hang around and provide support until some of them get impatient and punch face.
Child of Alara also sounds good, but seriously... I just can't bring myself to play it with that art...
Purphoros, God of the Forge + Assemble the Legion triggers would be great! Adding in Paradox Haze or Doubling Season would be terrifying. Pillowfort is a main theme in my Karona deck, and I'm sure it goes without saying that having an enchantress shell in a deck like this would only make it stronger. You could also just play Child of Alara as part of the 99. While not particularly on theme, it's still a strong play. Not sure if playing Planar Cleansing as a substitute would be easier or harder to resolve, but the Child does have the advantage of adding devotion to every god. If you do use Karona, False God as the general, be sure to include the Vow cycle of enchantments as they work very well with the general and are completely on theme for this kind of deck.
well, good news is that if you get all 15 god cards out, you have a total of 5 devotion to each color if I counted correctly, enough to have them all online. Of course, I can't see any situation other than turbodrawing all of them where you'd ever acheive such a feat. I forsee that any nongod cards are going to have to be hybridized mana, or really high devotion tickets. Cards like Divinity of Pride are sure to be amazing, though challenging to cast. Manafixins like Chromatic lantern and Prismatic Omen will be needed. Riftstone Portal and urborg, tomb of yawgmoth help too.
Hitting devotion may not be a good thing for many of the gods. Turning creature makes them easier to remove. And many can provide paths to win cons without ever turning creature (Heliod's tokens + Purphoros for example).
See yeah, 5 color god tribal could work because devotion probably won't matter for many.
This would be decided in game depending on board state. I would want the deck to run sufficient ways to turn Gods into creatures, but only at opportune moments.
I think the real problem here is that you intend to have a real glut of in the 4-5 CMC range.
The truth of the matter is, you'll play a god, and then you'll be stuck without the right devotion, and there will be a couple other gods in your hand.
Progenitus will go some way towards defraying that cost, but really, you just played Progenitus.
This is a very good point. Having to ramp out your first God T3 and then wait a few more turns before you can do anything substantial. Braids stax perhaps?
Karona seems fitting for a beatdown-style deck, and she's obviously the most flavorful general.
Seems like "Gods" of Shadowmoor/Eventide are auto-includes here. Enabling alone all the multicolored gods that rely on one of their colors, plus the two monocolored ones is serious business.
This is exactly what I was thinking. Have out 2 or 3 Gods, then drop one of the avatars from Shadowmoor, triggering two or more of them. Sure, it wont last for long, but I am not building the next Zur deck.
What about Child of Alara? Indestructible seems to go hand in hand with it. You can focus on multi colored dudes to turn on the gods with the typical recursion package child decks run. At worst, you end up with a bunch of indestructible enchantments when child does its thing and at best you cast living death that doesn't effect your gods till suddenly you have a table full of multi colored dudes and can swing for the fences that same turn.
The reason I wanted to avoid Child is because of the hate Child seems to bring, plus, having to drop him in your GY each time he dies is troublesome. Karona is more on theme and Progenitus hits devotion far easier.
I've been thinking about this for a while, contemplating different approaches. I was planning on going with a pillowfort enchantment deck with stuff like Assemble the Legion to make use of the gods' abilities, but after seeing the latest batch (Mogis, Ephara, Karametra, Xenagos) I do think a beatdown deck would make better use of their abilities.
Yea, I have been looking out for a "God Tribal" thread since theros was spoiled and rumours were flying about the next two sets having mutlicolored Gods. I am not sure if one has been made, but I haven't seen it.
I am just glad the new Gods are also indestructible.
Pillowfort might be the best solution to this deck, since I can't believe it will be even remotely fast. Perhaps a God tribal good-stuff beatdown, as was mentioned above...
I had actually made a thread on this subject a while back, about a 5-color devotion deck that would use all the gods. Obviously we only knew of five of them so there wasn't a whole lot of direction to the discussion. And who knows, the last 5 gods from JOU (plus Phenax which hasn't been spoiled yet) might end up pushing us towards a different strategy again. Actually trying to make use of other devotion cards in all colors seems a bit unrealistic though.
What about a Superfriends-type deck? Planeswalkers contribute to devotion, are a bit harder to remove than most creatures, and are similar to the gods in that they reward you for playing defense and building towards big effects. (Ultimates for the PWs, turning into large creatures for the gods)
Thematically, you could say the PWs are the gods' chosen champions? For anyone who wants to stay on theme.
Realistically, if you're using the Theros+Shadowmoor god cards, you're going to be running a very mid-range deck that has trouble with the early game. Adding in Planeswalkers makes that even worse, as those are almost universally in the 3-6 CMC range (barring a few exceptions).
This means your 1-3 drops need to be fixers and removal spells galore, and there's not too many sweepers in that range that are very useful in EDH.
I've been thinking about this as well. It would allow us to run Replenish and Patriarch's Bidding as redundant copies of each other. The list I would run will have Angry Baby in the command zone to keep the board clear of foreign heresies (opponents stuff).
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A thing to note, The new gods require 7 devotion not 5 so the shadowmoor 'gods' will not in fact activate them, given is only one to devotion requiring green and black (not that that exists yet)
A thing to note, The new gods require 7 devotion not 5 so the shadowmoor 'gods' will not in fact activate them, given is only one to devotion requiring green and black (not that that exists yet)
The gods themselves provide 2 of the 7 so you only need 5 more.
Oh, I thought he was talking about playing a spell that is countering a spell with counters on it as it comes into play, but I see you guys were just discussing whether he was flashing a creature with flash in order to flash a flashback or just flashing a creature with flash but not needing flash in order to flashback a spell without flash.
One thing that bothers me a bit with the Shadowmoor demigods though, is that their abilities are all over the place. Aside from the devotion they contribute, and being sizable beaters, I don't see much synergy mashing them all together in one deck. Plus a lot of their abilities don't seem all that useful. The Godhead of Awe in particular is a nonbo, though picturing a tiny Heliod and Thassa attacking your opponents is entertaining.
One thing that bothers me a bit with the Shadowmoor demigods though, is that their abilities are all over the place. Aside from the devotion they contribute, and being sizable beaters, I don't see much synergy mashing them all together in one deck. Plus a lot of their abilities don't seem all that useful. The Godhead of Awe in particular is a nonbo, though picturing a tiny Heliod and Thassa attacking your opponents is entertaining.
The only ones that REALLY suck when trying to benefit a God beatdown style deck are; Diety of Scars and Godhead of Awe. The others are all very powerful in their own right, and making 9 Gods active is nothing to scoff at. Even running 3-4 in total will be worth it, as just 1 works on so many of the Gods.
Oversoul of Dusk is perhaps the more dominate one, since it has pro Black. If only it were pro White instead of red (as it avoids most burn anyways).
Which ones you run will certainly depend on which Gods you wish to focus on activating most often. (Which will not be known until this block is done.)
These are not your only options, as you have the Leige cycle which work wonderfully. Getting 2 more devotion is not a difficult task.
The only ones that REALLY suck when trying to benefit a God beatdown style deck are; Diety of Scars and Godhead of Awe.
Godhead I understand, but why do you think the Diety sucks?
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Realistically, if you're using the Theros+Shadowmoor god cards, you're going to be running a very mid-range deck that has trouble with the early game.
Now granted I understand that all metas are different and some vastly so, but I know at least in my multiplayer meta I don't have to worry too much about turns 1-3 ending my game. Some STeves, maybe a manarock or ramp spell, possibly a Soul Sister or two.
The only ones that REALLY suck when trying to benefit a God beatdown style deck are; Diety of Scars and Godhead of Awe. The others are all very powerful in their own right, and making 9 Gods active is nothing to scoff at. Even running 3-4 in total will be worth it, as just 1 works on so many of the Gods.
I like Deity of Scars for one reason: it can protect itself. As has been stated, one of the weaknesses of trying to animate your gods and go to town is that your gods need other cards in play to attack, and (for the most part) those cards won't be indestructible. Regeneration may not be the best form of protection because of exiling/tucking/no regen removal, but it's still relevant. Also helpful that he's black so that he dodges things like Shriekmaw and Nekrataal.
Godhead I pretty much concluded as being the complete antithesis to what the deck was doing from the start, even though I love the card.
These are not your only options, as you have the Leige cycle which work wonderfully. Getting 2 more devotion is not a difficult task.
I'm not a huge fan of most of the lieges; almost all of the Shadowmoor cycle are just french vanilla beaters attached to tiny bodies, and giving a small bonus to your gods is fairly win-more when animating them should already be good enough to pressure your opponents. The Eventide cycle has some cool abilities, most of which either need to be built around or don't do enough. The ones I've been looking to play (I don't have them yet due to price point/availability issues) are the three lieges within the Junk wedge, as they either generate card advantage (Creakwood Liege/Deathbringer Liege) or have a par-for-the-curve body and sometimes relevant ability (Wilt-Leaf Liege). Additionally, most of my token creators/creatures in general are at least one of their colours, whereas something like Mindwrack Liege will be doing nothing to help my board 70% of the time.
I honestly think the demigods are the best way to enable the god beatdown strat, since trying to match up two different hybrid cards to share one or two colours is both more difficult to assemble and more difficult to protect (not that other hybrid cards aren't worth playing, but they have to be good enough on their own to make the cut). With that in mind, Green Sun's Zenith can help fetch out a demigod of any colour of devotion you need (so long as they're still in your deck, I suppose) along with utility dorks like Fauna Shaman for more tutoring, Joiner Adept if your mana base isn't working out, and Oracle of Mul Daya for some value. Chord of Calling would also be good if you can afford one.
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Another issue is, the Gods tend to be needy. Requiring a lot of building AROUND them. Take Purphorus, probably the best God in edh. But without sufficient ways to drop enough creatures, is it really that good?
Thoughts?
I don't think they need much support at all. Heliod gives all your gods and avatars vigilance, and can pay a cost to make tokens. Thassa scrys, which is good for any deck, and makes your gods unblockable, which is useful. Erebos stops people from gaining life, and generates cards, which every deck needs. Purphoros triggers on each god, each avatar, and tokens, either from Helios, or otherwise. Nylea gives those 7/6s the trample they need to push through.
The new four all seem to have relatively static abilities that benefit from doing stuff you're already planning on doing, like casting creatures, drawing cards, or putting pressure on your opponent. I think it could work.
See yeah, 5 color god tribal could work because devotion probably won't matter for many.
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It used to be more flavourful and cleric-based, but now that I know just how much devotion I'm going to need for the new gods (i.e. hybrid cards aren't super great with the multicolour gods) it's become more of a goodstuff beatdown deck, playing cards like Oracle of Mul Daya, Angel of Despair and Sire of Insanity that are necessary to enable the deck some semblance of card advantage and board control.
You probably COULD just play a bunch of gods without trying to make them creatures, as bigbear suggested, and that would likely be a stronger, more resilient deck, but IMO I've had far more fun smacking people with a horde of gods in the games I've played, and my repertoire of EDH decks was lacking a beatdown deck. If your playgroup is more casual, you could get away with it.
I'll likely post my list up once Phenax is spoiled.
The truth of the matter is, you'll play a god, and then you'll be stuck without the right devotion, and there will be a couple other gods in your hand.
Progenitus will go some way towards defraying that cost, but really, you just played Progenitus.
Basically, people can be greedy with their mana bases because there are a lot of tools to fix mana. You can't be greedy with devotion (at least, not past 3 colours or so) because the tools to 'fix' devotion don't exist. Sure, you can play Divinity of Pride, but then you're hoping you get the right selection of gods (which isn't too bad, given that DoP will creaturify 6 out of 10 gods), but then you're leaning on DoP not being killed. And, it will, because having gods is a problem.
I think I'd be more interested in seeing how 3 colour decks fare, possibly with Elder Dragons at the helm. A Nicol Bolas gods deck might be interesting, depending on what the U/B one turns out to be.
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I've been thinking about this for a while, contemplating different approaches. I was planning on going with a pillowfort enchantment deck with stuff like Assemble the Legion to make use of the gods' abilities, but after seeing the latest batch (Mogis, Ephara, Karametra, Xenagos) I do think a beatdown deck would make better use of their abilities.
Trying to hit devotion reliably seems tricky though, unless all those hybrid guys from Shadowmoor are included. And as mentioned by bigbear, NOT hitting devotion until you're ready to strike can be an advantage.
Currently I'm leaning towards using Horde of Notions, with some nifty evoke guys and some other useful elementals. Just let the gods hang around and provide support until some of them get impatient and punch face.
Child of Alara also sounds good, but seriously... I just can't bring myself to play it with that art...
Seems like "Gods" of Shadowmoor/Eventide are auto-includes here. Enabling alone all the multicolored gods that rely on one of their colors, plus the two monocolored ones is serious business.
Purphoros, God of the Forge + Assemble the Legion triggers would be great! Adding in Paradox Haze or Doubling Season would be terrifying. Pillowfort is a main theme in my Karona deck, and I'm sure it goes without saying that having an enchantress shell in a deck like this would only make it stronger. You could also just play Child of Alara as part of the 99. While not particularly on theme, it's still a strong play. Not sure if playing Planar Cleansing as a substitute would be easier or harder to resolve, but the Child does have the advantage of adding devotion to every god. If you do use Karona, False God as the general, be sure to include the Vow cycle of enchantments as they work very well with the general and are completely on theme for this kind of deck.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
This would be decided in game depending on board state. I would want the deck to run sufficient ways to turn Gods into creatures, but only at opportune moments.
This is a very good point. Having to ramp out your first God T3 and then wait a few more turns before you can do anything substantial. Braids stax perhaps?
This is exactly what I was thinking. Have out 2 or 3 Gods, then drop one of the avatars from Shadowmoor, triggering two or more of them. Sure, it wont last for long, but I am not building the next Zur deck.
The reason I wanted to avoid Child is because of the hate Child seems to bring, plus, having to drop him in your GY each time he dies is troublesome. Karona is more on theme and Progenitus hits devotion far easier.
Yea, I have been looking out for a "God Tribal" thread since theros was spoiled and rumours were flying about the next two sets having mutlicolored Gods. I am not sure if one has been made, but I haven't seen it.
I am just glad the new Gods are also indestructible.
Pillowfort might be the best solution to this deck, since I can't believe it will be even remotely fast. Perhaps a God tribal good-stuff beatdown, as was mentioned above...
What about a Superfriends-type deck? Planeswalkers contribute to devotion, are a bit harder to remove than most creatures, and are similar to the gods in that they reward you for playing defense and building towards big effects. (Ultimates for the PWs, turning into large creatures for the gods)
Thematically, you could say the PWs are the gods' chosen champions? For anyone who wants to stay on theme.
This means your 1-3 drops need to be fixers and removal spells galore, and there's not too many sweepers in that range that are very useful in EDH.
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The gods themselves provide 2 of the 7 so you only need 5 more.
-regarding Snapcaster Mage.
2) Still technically not giving all the devotion by themselves.
Deity of Scars
Demigod of Revenge
Deus of Calamity
Divinity of Pride
Dominus of Fealty
Ghastlord of Fugue
Godhead of Awe
Nobilis of War
Overbeing of Myth
Oversoul of Dusk
The only ones that REALLY suck when trying to benefit a God beatdown style deck are; Diety of Scars and Godhead of Awe. The others are all very powerful in their own right, and making 9 Gods active is nothing to scoff at. Even running 3-4 in total will be worth it, as just 1 works on so many of the Gods.
Oversoul of Dusk is perhaps the more dominate one, since it has pro Black. If only it were pro White instead of red (as it avoids most burn anyways).
Which ones you run will certainly depend on which Gods you wish to focus on activating most often. (Which will not be known until this block is done.)
These are not your only options, as you have the Leige cycle which work wonderfully. Getting 2 more devotion is not a difficult task.
Godhead I understand, but why do you think the Diety sucks?
Now granted I understand that all metas are different and some vastly so, but I know at least in my multiplayer meta I don't have to worry too much about turns 1-3 ending my game. Some STeves, maybe a manarock or ramp spell, possibly a Soul Sister or two.
GWBKarador, Necrotic Ooze SubthemeBWG
I like Deity of Scars for one reason: it can protect itself. As has been stated, one of the weaknesses of trying to animate your gods and go to town is that your gods need other cards in play to attack, and (for the most part) those cards won't be indestructible. Regeneration may not be the best form of protection because of exiling/tucking/no regen removal, but it's still relevant. Also helpful that he's black so that he dodges things like Shriekmaw and Nekrataal.
Godhead I pretty much concluded as being the complete antithesis to what the deck was doing from the start, even though I love the card.
I'm not a huge fan of most of the lieges; almost all of the Shadowmoor cycle are just french vanilla beaters attached to tiny bodies, and giving a small bonus to your gods is fairly win-more when animating them should already be good enough to pressure your opponents. The Eventide cycle has some cool abilities, most of which either need to be built around or don't do enough. The ones I've been looking to play (I don't have them yet due to price point/availability issues) are the three lieges within the Junk wedge, as they either generate card advantage (Creakwood Liege/Deathbringer Liege) or have a par-for-the-curve body and sometimes relevant ability (Wilt-Leaf Liege). Additionally, most of my token creators/creatures in general are at least one of their colours, whereas something like Mindwrack Liege will be doing nothing to help my board 70% of the time.
I honestly think the demigods are the best way to enable the god beatdown strat, since trying to match up two different hybrid cards to share one or two colours is both more difficult to assemble and more difficult to protect (not that other hybrid cards aren't worth playing, but they have to be good enough on their own to make the cut). With that in mind, Green Sun's Zenith can help fetch out a demigod of any colour of devotion you need (so long as they're still in your deck, I suppose) along with utility dorks like Fauna Shaman for more tutoring, Joiner Adept if your mana base isn't working out, and Oracle of Mul Daya for some value. Chord of Calling would also be good if you can afford one.